Ravensburger’s Ryan Miller on what goes into crafting new sets for Disney Lorcana

Ryan, always great to see you. We last did an interview at the launch of Disney Lorcana; now we’re four sets in and it’s a sensation! Has the game’s first year unfolded as expected?
We hoped for success, but you never know until the rubber hits the road. We worked really hard, for years, before launching Disney Lorcana. We put together a wonderful team – made up of Ravensburger folks and new folks from a Trading Card Game background – and I hoped it would be a big hit for them, considering all their hard work. It’s been amazing to see people that have never played a TCG before come into the hobby through this game, especially the families and couples that come together to play Disney Lorcana. It’s been wonderful to see.

I met a guy at Gen Con whose daughters had been struggling with reading. They decided – on their own – to work on their reading so that they could play Disney Lorcana. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a bigger compliment on my work in my entire career! I spoke with someone who met the best man at his wedding through Lorcana… What a wonderful thing for a game to do; to forge these bonds and friendships.

Amazing. The game has evolved over the course of the four sets, both in plot and some abilities on cards. How do you manage the flow of that? How do you ensure new sets don’t throw things off balance in the game?
We have a whole game design team – run by Steve Warner – split between designers and developers. Designers come up with brand new cards and developers put it through the ringer. It’s a key part of any TCG; you need a dedicated group to stress test it. And having done all of that, you’ll still get the odd card that slips through and is more powerful than we expect. It’s the nature of the game.

On the strategic planning side of things, year after year we’re looking at how we want the game to grow and evolve – but it needs to always be accessible to new players. People need to be able to get into the game through every set. You have design for lots of different people, and the nice thing is that we have 204 cards to do that! We can have a bunch of cards for the tournament players, a bunch for the thematic players, a bunch for new players… A lot of our work centres on looking at sets from those angles.

Steve and I talked early on about wanting to avoid putting too many new mechanics in every set. We don’t want every set to introduce new mechanics… It should have new cards with new abilities, but we don’t want big major new mechanics. We added Location cards with Into the Inklands, but we do that carefully. If we do that too often, the game becomes too complicated, especially from a deckbuilding standpoint… And deckbuilding is already a complicated process, especially for folks that have never done it before.

Absolutely. So in staying away from big new mechanics, what do you look to add with each set?
Long-term, we look at what could be exciting about a new set. We could introduce a new franchise, or a focus on character that hasn’t had that attention before – like we did with Wreck-It Ralph. That franchise has a whole bunch of cards coming up in set five, Shimmering Skies. We look at what’s going to be fun and exciting in terms of what’s new. It shouldn’t be mechanically driven.

On that, what guides decisions about which franchises to bring into the game?
We have a whole narrative team made up of fantastic writers and narrative designers. They work on the overall story regarding the world of Disney Lorcana, as well as the stories of each set – and arcs across sets. For example, the first four sets had an arc centred on the return of Ursula. It’s a mix of their input, alongside input from marketing and Disney. We work very closely with Disney and they’ve been great. I’ve never seen a licensor be so excited about a product. They’re also very big on attention to detail, which is great because that’s one of my ingredients to a great experience… It takes love, attention to detail and hard work.

And details matter because even if a player or collector doesn’t notice those things, they’ll feel those things. Attention to detail is how we communicate the love that we have for this game and these characters. It’s important for consumers to know that this game is made by people who love it.

Absolutely. There are plenty of cards which I’d consider a ‘deep cut’ – something more obscure. What is benefit of those, or is there a limit to how obscure you can go?
It’s actually hard to go too deep. We have 204 cards in each set, so we can afford to devote some of those to deep cuts. And people who do love those – the Atlantis fans or the Treasure Planet fans – know we’re talking directly to them with those kinds of cards. And that’s really fun.

We had a single Treasure Planet card in set one and when we revealed it, people went nuts. On the forums, once the excitement died down, I saw someone ask: “What’s Treasure Planet?” People were saying “Oh you’ve got to watch it!” and so on… So here’s someone who hadn’t seen the movie before, and I guarantee they’ve seen it now. That’s a fun aspect of the deep cuts. It keeps stories alive for people who maybe hadn’t experienced them yet.

Another example is The Sword in the Stone. I don’t consider it a deep cut per se, but I do think it’s an underrated masterpiece – that’s why there’s so much of it in the game! Ha! Ultimately, it’s not a question of how deep can we go. It’s more about how much of a set should be made up of deep cuts. If you have that moment too often in a set, it can be off-putting. You don’t want to alienate people. We’re still experimenting with getting that mix right, but it’s one of the most magical parts of Lorcana.

Great insights. You’re putting fresh spins on iconic characters time and time again with these sets. What does it say about Ravensburger’s approach which means Disney has been supportive of these kinds of ‘big swings’?
Part of it is because Ravensburger has been working with Disney for 60 years. The companies have a long history of collaboration across puzzles and games, including, more recently, on Disney Villainous. And Villainous is important to the Lorcana conversation because it helped Ravensburger establish trust with Disney fans. These characters are so beloved by so many people – fans need to know that a company like Ravensburger is going to take good care of them. I can’t speak for Disney, but I think they feel that way about us.

They’ve also understood that a Trading Card Game is a content beast. Being able to reimagine characters is a key component of long-term success with something like this. But we also understand that there are limits… We wouldn’t change the moral compass of a character. We won’t make a hero into a villain – unless they’re being controlled.

Do you have a favourite ‘twist’ that you’ve put on a character?
I love our ‘smart’ Gaston – the Intellectual Powerhouse card. If you look at the card, he’s written his plan on the chalkboard… But it’s the same plan as in the movie. He’s not smart, he’s just smarter… It’s the same plan, he just wrote it down! He’s still buff, he’s still a narcissist – the twist is that he’s slightly smarter than he was before. Whatever we do, we take great care to not take a character in a direction that would signal to fans that we don’t understand or love a character.

Before we start to wrap up, I imagine you’ve been working solidly on Lorcana for years now… What keeps you enthused and excited about the brand?
It’s a good question. The number one thing is being close to the community. Going to locals, going to events, seeing the happiness we’re putting out into the world… It’s easy to forget. Look at what you do Billy. You do a lot of writing and put a lot into doing this for the industry, but you don’t always see the effects of what you do. Then you’ll host the Play Creators Awards or the Play Creators Conference, and you’ll see first-hand how excited everyone is and it rejuvenates you.

That’s very true.
The best analogy I have for making games is that it’s like the feeling of getting someone a gift, and being excited for them to open it. You only have that feeling if you know the person. It’s important for us to have experiences with people who are enjoying the game and making memories with it. So that’s what keeps me enthused – going out and playing the game with people and witnessing the game be a platform for connection.

From a game designer standpoint, it can also help just to play a lot of games. Or to work on my owns games. Both help me rejuvenate. It’s about stretching those creative muscles on something different so you can come back to the main project with a fresh perspective.

Great answer. Last question! Do you have any cards in particular that you’ve been especially excited to see land over the past year?
I was very excited about Location cards. From a design standpoint, it might have been slightly early for a whole new card type to enter the game, but we really wanted the narrative and thematic flexibility they provide. Once we had Location cards, then pretty much anything from a Disney film we could put on a card… We have Action cards, Item cards, Character cards, Songs and now Locations.

I love it when you hear a player talking during the game and it sounds thematic, like “I’m going to move Mickey to Pride Rock.” It just sounds thematic, even though it is something you’re doing in the game.

Set five, Shimmering Skies, arrives this month. First in the hobby stores and then at mass and online. What is behind this strategy of launching with hobby stores and indies first?
Hobby is where the community is born and grows, because that’s where the events are done. We wanted to give them special recognition for that. The other thing is that there are a lot of Disney fans new to this hobby. The idea of going into a store to play the game is novel to them, whereas to gamers it’s pretty normal. I wanted them to have that experience and it’s been great. I’ve speak to a lot of store owners and I always ask: “Are we bringing new people into your store?” The answer is always a resounding “yes” and that’s great.

Ryan, this has been great. I have one last question… Have you seen Lorcana have an impact on the wider TCG industry in any way?
I don’t know that we’ve changed any business’s decisions, but friends I have at places like Pokémon and Wizards of the Coast are excited about Lorcana. They understand that we’re helping bring new people into the world of TCGs. If these people enjoy Lorcana, chances are they’ll also want to see what else is out there. That was actually one of my goals. I think Trading Card Games are really fun and more people should play them. It’s a fun way to make friends and find a community.

Ryan, a huge thanks again. Let’s catch up soon!